Just a question

Hey @Yerta , i hear you. I want to respond because i do have some thoughts on this. It is something i can relate to in a number of ways. However i am not able to now/tonight as i need to take some time/space for myself mentally.

But i will come back to your post. I care and i want to offer some supportive ideas and listen to you more. Tag me anytime to grab my attention because sometimes all i have time for is responding to tags and not general browsing.

In the mean time though, i want you to know you're seen. You're not alone on here. Chat soon.

Hello @Yerta yes I rarely saw people face to face but have recently linked with a support service in the suburbs. They run groups and can help with transport.

It's not always easy to find what's offered in the community. Sometimes local councils provide information .

Bed rot... low motivation and low energy can signal needing more help with depression but for me mood activity and mental health can be a vicious circle.  Breaking that cycle isn't easy.

I appreciate having my cat.   he's old and unwell now but much loved.

As we approach the holiday season we can feel more alone and regret lost connections. I guess it's also a break time for anyone studying. In your field is there any expectation of continuing professional education? 

I hope you can join in some of the social threads here. I generally drop by for short visits but chat can continue all day. I'll tag @Shaz51 . You might like to share a virtual cuppa sometime.

Hello 😊 @Yerta , @Dimity , @AlwaysMyself 

Welcome @Yerta 

Do you have any furbabies xx 

I totally understand. My friends are here for me and sitting with me as we are sitting with you 

Will tag you tomorrow in the Friday Coffee and Chat thread 

Thank you 

Hey @Yerta , Im doing a bit better now and in the headspace to be able to respond properly 🥰.

Firstly, yep I've felt the pain of being the person who is always there to offer support and visit others and put the effort into staying in touch and checkin in with them, but then not having them check-in with me when i need to pull back or prioritise time to talk/meet with me when i ask for it (and that is rare for me to do) - ive had friends to say yes to a time to meet to help talk to support and then cancel it multiple times in a row (only to hang out with their boyfriend as i later hear them telling me what they did that week; i guess they forgot they had cancelled with me for it?).

It hurts. I used to get soo upset by it as a teenager. Always giving, rarely receiving.

Buuutttt I do also have friends who ARE supportive and DO try to checkin with me when they can/remember. And most importantly when I have needed someone to talk to they have made time and prioritised fitting me in. Those people do exist. They're just harder to find in the face-to-face world. Thankfully there are lots of them here on the forum though 🥰 so even if i cant or dont want to ask one of my few f2f friends, i know i can see who is online here.

Because i am sooo far up the "considerate and empathetic" scale --- waayy above the norm --- part of my process was to realise this and come to acknowledge what that means. Which is unfortunately that most people wont be as considerate and proactive as I am in caring for me in return, and I need to lower my emotional expectation of reciprocal care. This has also meant that so I dont feel burnt, being a bit more selective about who i invest my beyond-average care to and prioritisng those who DO show reciprocal care, whilst still being helpful but with further-out boundries for those who are 99% takers. And yeah, establishing good boundries to not get caring fatigue has been a big thing for me to help me. 

As for how to find those gems of people in face to face who will be reciprocal caring, i wish i knew how to find them! I'd love a few more lol. And some i did have we have sinced moved physical location so we are many hours drive apart and cant physically meet (plus they had kids and all the time pressures that come with that!).

One thing i have learnt though is that sometimes i assume that because someone didnt offer care unprompted it means they dont want to help or hear about it. But i have come to realise that this is not always true! (Of course with some people it can be though). One of my now-reciprocal supporting friends was in this category; she never asked what was wrong if i said i needed someone to talk. Turns out she just didnt know how to ask! 😅 it wasnt at all that she didnt care or wasnt open to hearing how i was. I only came to realise this because we caught up for a general social chat and she asked how my (now ex) partner was doing and i indicated i didnt think he was doing well and it was impacting me. She didnt ask how, and didnt really know what to say. So i was direct with her (i knew i could be, i trusted our friendship) and said i dont know if she wanted to know more or if she preferred to not know because for example her own wellbeing needs. This opened the door to me discovering this new perspective on caring but not knowing how to ask! 🥰

Hi @Yerta 

I have had an experience that maybe profitable for you.

About 18 months ago I lost my partner to cancer.  She was determined to advocate and fight to save her life, and one of the side effects of this was that I was forbidden to talk to her about life without her.  I use to listen to the deteriorating health of her lungs whilst she.slept over 5 years, and it was very isolating.

I would have described myself as introverted at that time, and we had relied on each other for companionship overn13 years.

When she died, our small family did yo one another what I couldn't imagine was possible: they attacked each other vehemently.  It was like the peraon that everyone relied on was taken out of the combative dynamic, and like the start of WW1, the opposing forces collapsed upon each other.

The point to all this is that I found myself alone in a "mausoleum" and I was desperate for any connection.

The trauma of this experience made my personality transform.  I sort any connection, and I wasn't particularly concerned whether I said much of my reality, only that I connected.  With this goal, I found connections without pause: pubs, supermarkets, visiting meter readers; you name it, I was hearing of multiple stories each and everyday.

I was almost indifferent of expressing my inner world.  However, if anyone was interested, I exposed my real self without any pretence or guardedness.

I was just me.  It was a transformative experience.

What was very surprising was that most of the people that opened to me seemed to be in a more difficult place than myself.  That was a revelation to me.

I suppose it seems redundant, but if you feel.like you.have a 'public narrative' that is close enough to your real self; one that is honest and vulnerable and true to your experience and story, you will find connections.  It just requires a little effort to walk out the house and say 'hi'.

Hope this message finds you in a better place.

Kind regards

J.

It's a tough journey and can often be isolating.  A lot of friends drifted away when my PTSD hit and I had a complete breakdown.  It took a long time to get to a place where I could tolerate being around people, being in public spaces etc.  My now friends I made through my children's school and my hobbies (I made myself get out there and get out of my comfort zone).  

I think a big difference with some people is being unwell and in a victim mentality which can be really draining for others, or being unwell but able to come across differently.  When I'm not going well, I let my friends know and will joke around a bit to lighten it for them.  I'm also able to listen to them and support them with their hurdles but don't take it on.

I've got a friend who lost her fiancé mid year.  She's lovely but a lot of the friend group have pulled away as they're unable to be around the heavy grieving and she's unable to / doesn't want to hear others complaining about something.  She sees everything else as inconsequential and that they should get over it as it's nothing like losing the love of your life.  So, I think that when anything big happens in our lives, we'll have people leave us and eventually have new ones come into our space.

My suggestion is to look online at events around you like yoga, cooking, art, self defence etc.  Maybe even a Tafe course.   That way you can meet new people in a fairly safe space. 

You could also let your friends and family know what you require from them.  They can be uncomfortable not knowing if what they're saying or doing will upset you.  If you let them know what you need it can help.  My friend whose fiancé died told me that she wants to talk about him and to grieve with others so she's not alone in her grief.  It made navigating his loss with her so much easier.

Wishing you all the best on your journey

@Yerta Yes, I have always struggled to make friends, I have gone long periods of time without any friends at all and I've also struggle to find healthy friends and friends who are willing and interested in catching up regularly. I'm also very frustrated with needing friends to heal but only being able to attract people who don't respect me long term.  

Are you in a position where leaving the house would be possible for you? Could your peer support help you find ways to making leaving the house easier? 

I think extra-curricular activities are a good way to connect with people. I don't make very many friends this way, but it does help to be around other people with something structured. The key is to just go and enjoy the activity, rather than stress about whether or not you'll make a friend today. The activity itself can help with social healing, even if you don't always get close with another participant. 

Would you like help brainstorming ways to meet people? There are many face to face and also online options. 

Hi, 

I do have a peer support person and they have suggested lots of things for me to engage in. I love some of the ideas and even have some for myself but that fear and mistrust in getting to know people is much stronger at the moment. I also need to get over wanting the people already in my life showing up how I would like them to show up, because I know I won't get from them what I need, even after expressing what I need from them. So I don't even trust the people already 'close' to me. So how am I supposed to trust strangers. 
I am working on it and have made the decision that this year I am really and truely going to put myself and my needs back. After this holiday period and being by myself.....I'm going to start out slow with a pool membership so that I can go float or swim on my own. Water has always been calming for me but I don't have a bath, even if I did, I feel that this is a step in being around people with no expectations for any sort of connection. Then I plan to do some water classes.

so that's my slow, steady beginning. 

I do love human contact, my mood is always lifted after very brief and unexpected interactions like at the supermarket or getting petrol. Even after sessions with therapist or peer support.

(I know they are completely and utterly to support me) 

I am 54 and learning how to regulate my nervous system more effectively. Something I should have learnt as a child .....

The last 18 months of living completely by myself and a little bit of a distance further away for people to visit - not that anyone apart from my kids, have ever visited me, not even my own father, but he will visit and ring my kids all the freaking time.........his excuse is he doesn't understand mental health - so he avoids me, and my middle child sometimes when his mental health is challenging, I have needed his support after all that has happened in the last few years. Hence my decision to truely focus on myself this year. What's the saying, completely disappear for a while and be away from the negative and toxic relationships until I am strong enough to either cut them off completely or strong enough to withstand brief and intermittent contact. 

also a interact and engage more on here. As I know y'all get it and y'all are pretty much the only people I can honestly say how I am feeling. ( not even therapist gets complete truth yet as I still have that 'embarrassment' and 'unworthiness' and scared of what they will think of me) (I am also going to get an actual trauma psychologist this year )

thanks for the support and me being able to write an essay hahahaha

I think it's great you have been able to be open and trusting enough to tell us this @Yerta . 😊 Your goals for this year regarding putting your needs primary, and starting out with water-based gentle exercise/relaxation, sound fantastic.  I used to do aqua classes (pre-covid) and found that because I would go to the same time slot class I did get to know "friendly faces" each week and over weeks they would say "hi" and "bye", and if I missed a week sometimes one would say they missed me and hoped I was doing OK, etc. Some of the retirees also would stay and have coffee after one of the classes, and that was a nice option to stay and have social contact if I wanted (but also the option to not if I didn't want to).

"fear and mistrust in getting to know people is much stronger at the moment. I also need to get over wanting the people already in my life showing up how I would like them to show up, because I know I won't get from them what I need, even after expressing what I need from them. So I don't even trust the people already 'close' to me. So how am I supposed to trust strangers. "

I can completely understand this; it makes a lot of logical sense too - we want to keep ourselves protected and safe, and in the past we have had experiences that have not been safe. I also have a number of people who I would like to "show up" in my life differently to how (limited) they do, and have to accept that they can't or won't - and that is their allowed choice, and instead I need to seek out people who will and can show up for me the way I need. And for me, learning that it is ok to need people to show up for me has been a challenge that I have been challenging myself to work on - the permission to reach out to people.

I hope you also find this forum as much of a safe and supportive place as I have. It has helped me find people to genuinely care, who can show up for me when I need it, as well as give me the opportunity to show up and care for others too (which is big value for me and something that I feel is worthwhile and meaningful connection).

Perhaps this forum's "strangers" can also be a safe way to learn that some "strangers" are safe and caring, and that whilst we may all be anonymous here - we also are real people in real communities, like the one you live in. And that logically it would also mean that people just like us also exist in the face-to-face community, it can just be harder to find them unless there is a like-minded meet-group to bring them together (like this forum does).

I look forward to seeing you walk this path this year, and how we can support you along the way -- celebrating the wins, encouraging during the low-motivation or fears, and extra supportive during the hard lows.

@Ruby26 @TranquilOne @J_Oz @Shaz51 

@Yerta most of the people who are close to me are the people who have proven they are untrustworthy. I do find it hard to read social cues from strangers to help me understand if they are trustworthy or not, which makes me feel very vulnerable. However, I figure a stranger can never have the power to hurt me as much as my family have. I will never be as vulnerable as I was as a child, so even if people betray my trust, the worst is already over. It still hurts when people betray me, particularly my ex (who started off as a stranger and turned out to be capable of evil) but nothing is ever as bad as childhood betrayal. 

My family will never show up for me the way I want them to show up. I'm trying to accept that I can't control their behaviour. It is hard because it still hurts so much, but I try to focus on the things I can actually control. 

Pool membership sounds like a fantastic idea! Swimming has been an important part of my trauma healing. Spontaneous movement combined with the presence of other people is very effective as a complex trauma treatment. Swimming is also great for exercise and grounding. I love your idea of slowly building up to doing a swimming class. 

Having a break from your father sounds like a good idea. I hope you manage to find a trauma psychologist. I think finding a professional who understands the impact of trauma on the brain will be helpful for you. Hope to see more of you on the Sane forums too. 

@Yerta I’m really sorry you’re feeling this way. It’s such a painful place to be, and reading your post really resonated with me. I want you to know that you are seen by me. I know this is a late reply, but I wanted to respond because I relate to some of it of what you’re describing. Early last year, when I was diagnosed with CPTSD and finally started much-needed therapy, I realised I’d been quite blind for most of my life to the dynamics in my friendships. A lot of people I thought were friends were only there when it suited them, and the hot-and-cold nature of those relationships took a toll on me in ways I didn’t fully understand at the time. 

When I stepped away from those relationships, the loneliness was intense. Even though it was better in one way for me, it also felt incredibly empty. All of the sudden it felt like I had no one to hang out with. There were long stretches where I didn’t have meaningful face-to-face connection either, and that kind of isolation really messes with your sense of being real or mattering. Eventually, I enrolled in a volunteer project. I was absolutely terrified, I remember how anxious I was that morning, and the first few weeks felt very shaky. No joking! I was constantly worried about saying the wrong thing, about being too much, or not enough. But I kept turning up. Slowly, over time, I started to feel a small sense of belonging there. Over time, by showing up each week, I slowly started to feel a sense of connection. It wasn’t instant, but there were people who really noticed me and were glad to see me. Even though these weren’t “best friend” relationships, it really meant the world to me to know that there were some reliable people in my life. That said, I still feel lonely at times. I don’t think that feeling just disappears after trauma, especially when relationships haven’t felt safe for most of my life. For me, loneliness isn’t just about being alone, it’s tied up in years of not feeling seen. 

I don’t know the right answer, but I want you to know that what you’re feeling makes sense. Wanting someone to show up, to visit, to care in a meaningful way isn’t too much. You’re not wrong for needing that. I’ll also say that for me, volunteering helped a lot. Even just a few hours a week in an area I was interested in gave me some more 'human connection', and it turned out to be a very welcoming space. It didn’t solve everything, but it opened the door to meeting a few kind people along the way. 🙂